Words of Life or Words of Death? • Beyond The Sermon

Well, hello and welcome to beyond the Sermon of Bethany podcast, where we have the privilege of digging deeper into our Sunday messages. I am Tammy Delau, and today I am joined with both Kathy and Steve Musto. This is fun. I always love when I get to be with the two of you. So very, very cool.

Big week coming up here, guys. We are. I mean, if you are a two year old little boy, you're going to be excited because they are going to be big machines. Oh, yeah. This is the place.

Well, not just two year olds. Last when we were doing the driveway, are you going to be out there? Yeah, I was out there standing there for a few. I was like, I got to get back to work. This is ridiculous, watching them move dirt.

But, yeah, we do. We have a lot of equipment and stuff being dropped off this week. Actual construction is going to start probably sometime next week. But yeah, things are going to start getting dropped off here in the coming week and lots of things are going to change. So one of the things that is going to change immediately, immediately is we're gonna lose our sidewalk going into the front door of the church.

The millipedes are gonna be really sad. No place to go. Where are they gonna go? It's not really a sidewalk for humans anymore. Right now it's just a millipede Runway.

Yes, it is. It's true. Thank you, Rain, for all of that. And I was hoping the birds would help out with that, but they're of no help. They must be full.

But yeah. So we need to. We need to in the coming weeks, just pay attention to where the cones are and guiding us into the building and all that. But, yeah, that's going to be our new normal. That is exciting.

Yeah. All right, well, let's jump in. Okay.

All right, guys, I am curious what your takeaway was from Chase's message, because what I heard was Magna Tiles beat Legos. Oh, so I did hear that. And I would agree because I have. Have you ever stepped on a Lego? Because that is like the worst.

Yes. It's just terrible. I don't know if it was magnetiles that Josh used to play with, but it was the magnet, you know, like the little balls and the connectors and yeah, they were really, really fun. But we need to get you some magnetiles, apparently. Yeah, yeah.

So, so dangerous. We were warned by everybody, do not let a child who's too small get their hands on these because they'll swallow them, and you do not want to swallow that. And then we talked to a pediatrician friend who said, oh yeah, we just use a magnet and we basically work its way back up their esophagus and pull it out their mouth. I was like, I don't know if that's true, but it sounds really fun. So it's like playing operation or something, man.

Great message. And I think the, I told him yesterday actually that the, the end where he shouted out all different kinds of work that people do and how important it is and why it matters. And he dignified each of those. Yeah, everybody, you know, that was like single parents who are at work and people who are doing fast food jobs, but also who are working in factories and blue collar jobs and white collar jobs. And why are these all important?

We have a tendency to ren, like, you must be really important because you do this job. And the idea that they all have dignity and they all have worth and they all matter to somebody huge. It was really good. And so this week as we continue on in this series, you are going to be talking about wisdom with words, correct? Yes.

Can I just go ahead and read the verse before we jump in? All right. I love it when they're short ones. So here we go. I won't trip over them then.

So this is Proverbs 10:11. The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, but the mouth of the wicked consumption conceals violence. And so words are just so important. And so, Kathy, I would love to start with you. You know me want to do tam talk, want to do the heart thing.

We've all had words spoken to us, either words that encourage or words that discourage. And oftentimes they can hold a disproportionate position in our hearts. So can, can you share a story of where words have affected you? Yeah, yeah, it's true. You know, words, they imprint us, you know, the good or the bad.

They do imprint us, for better or for worse. Thinking of a time when I was growing up and a pretty compliant kid and didn't make a lot of waves or make a lot of trouble. And I remember one time something happened and I decided to stick up for myself and voiced that. And I was met with an immediate, well, that's selfish. And it was coming from someone who never raised their voice, who was not an unkind person in any way.

They weren't trying to be malicious in any way. But what that did for me throughout my years was then think to myself, okay, if I ask for something, I am selfish. Just that one little thing. It wasn't over time, it wasn't a habit, but the one Thing imprinted on my soul. I can't do that anymore because that'll mean I'm selfish.

I can't ask for things. I can't put my desires before somebody else's because that's selfish. And that it was such a learning thing. And, you know, again, not intentional. No one was trying to be unkind.

It was a moment, a pouring out of a word, out of anger or frustration, and it was not like them. But, man, it landed with me in a way that lasted a long time before I realized that it happened. I think that happens often. We hear it once, but then we choose to rewind it and play it over. Play the tape recorder.

Oh, I'm giving my age away playing it over. So, yeah. So, yeah. So why do we do that? And how do we stop doing that?

Playing that recording over and over again? I want to answer that, but I want to hear yours first. What is your story? What's something that somebody has said to you positively or negatively? I think unintentionally, My mom, she was very precious, but I was the smart one and Jamie was the pretty one.

And so that affects who you are. And I remember growing up and Jamie and I talking, and Jamie going, I'm not dumb. And I'm like. And I'm not ugly. And I know my mom did not mean to hurt us, but just so interesting that we took that away and that it affected us as young women.

So that was the one that popped in my mind. And thank God my mom doesn't watch the podcast, because I know there was no ill intent, but it's like you say, we just. I'm the smart one. Oh, I'm sure. And I'm sure, you know, if our kids were on the podcast right now and we won't let them on, they would tell about us.

And, yeah, something fingerprints us. So I use this analogy because it just works for me. When I was younger, I used to watch boxing with my dad. My dad grew up in Brooklyn, New York. He loved boxing.

And these guys are just pummeling each other right, in a boxing ring and just punching each other in the face. And sometimes the announcers would say, whoa, that punch landed. And I would say, they're all land. I mean, it looks like they're all landing. They're all landing.

Yeah, if you're getting hit in the face. But what they meant was there are punches that seem to hit harder than others, and because of where their other person's arm is, their guard is down or they're moving a certain way they might walk into the punch or whatever it is. For some reason, that punch that they've been hit with 20 times before in the fight impacts them in a way that it hasn't the rest of the fight. And I think there are some punches that land when it comes to our words. And over the years, I would say when we've had numerous occasions where we've been in situations where somebody has said something to one of us and we just said, ooh, that punch landed maybe because our defenses were down, maybe because it had a ring of truth to it and we didn't want to face the truth, maybe because it was so wildly out of character for us or so dishonest that it's something that we've tried to push back on our lives.

Say, I'm not that person. I'm the opposite of that person. I mean, there's so many reasons why. And sometimes it just. Because it just lands and it hurts us, and we don't really have an explanation for it, but those are hard.

And the opposite can be true, too. I mean, we've kind of told the negative side, but sometimes those words are the spark that we need to do something better, to do something more, and they give life, not just pain. There are words that we can all remember that someone said something that was positive to us, that sparked us to do the next best thing, or brought us confidence and encouragement to do something equally powerful. Right? Yeah.

And that's. The negative tapes that roll are the ones that we turn up the loudest. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. But it would be wise for us to revisit the positive ones and to remember this is part of, by the way, what we do when we worship God.

We remember the positive. Yeah. We go before God and we tell God all about it. Do we think God doesn't know that he is holy, that he is worthy of praise? No.

Of course he knows. We are proclaiming that to him, giving him the glory that he deserves. But it also does something in us. It reminds us, oh, yes, this is our omnipotent, omniscient God. This is the one who has all things, who has a plan for us.

This is the one who loves us beyond all reason. This is the one who sent his son to die for us. This is the one who's. All of these things we remind ourselves. We remind our hearts, we encourage.

That is literally give courage to one another and to our own hearts when we do these things. And I don't think it's a coincidence that God spoke the world into existence. That Jesus is referred to as the Word, and that our words matter. Okay? So we've talked about people speaking words to us and us not replaying the record or the recording of those negative things.

But what do we do when we are in relationship with someone and they consistently speak words over us that are hard to receive and they are not repentive and they're not hearing that hurts. How do you deal with that, Kathy, if you have a relationship like that? Yeah, you know, I think this is where wisdom comes into play when we're encountering someone who is speaking negatively to us over and over and over. And Steve's going to talk about this, and in his sermon, it means there's something else underneath there, you know, and being wise enough to say that this is not what I want to listen to. This is not.

This is not a me problem. This is a them problem. And where their words are coming from is not in a good place. And so for me, I've learned over the years that sometimes I just need to remove myself from that relationship or put distance and say, this is not someone that is going to speak into me because I can't trust their words to be accurate or true. So there's a discernment there, a wisdom that comes from that to say, oh, this is not a person who's going to speak life into me.

Sometimes, you know, we encounter, sometimes truth is hurtful, but it doesn't mean it's harmful. And so discerning between those two things, I can take truth that's helpful, but not harmful. But that takes a lot of. A lot of work and a lot of effort to try and parse out those things. Many years ago, I worked with and led groups for guys who.

Groups of men who were in sexual addiction and coming out of sexual addiction. And in these groups were some men who had been arrested for things that they had done, guys who'd gone to jail and some pretty horrific things. And so here I am as a pastor. I'm called in to talk to these guys and minister to these guys in some way. And I'm going through my own junk at the time, and I'm trying to figure out who am I and what does this look like in my own life and how do I keep boundaries up?

And the shocking thing to me was not just seeing these guys in a newspaper with their crimes or on a website that said, here's where they live, but getting to talk to them and hear their stories. And when I did that, and I met the broken boys behind these men who had done terrible things, by their own admission, had done terrible things. They're broken boys. And the things that had been done to them, it gave me this whole different perspective. So that when it comes to someone saying something terrible to us or someone who consistently discourages us, consistently says negative things, consistently rubs our nose in the worst parts of ourselves, brings up our past, says all, remember you did this.

Remember you did this. Those people, in the best of times, I am able to say, yeah, but something happened to that person. And it's not that they're not responsible, they are absolutely responsible for what they're doing. But let's remember that something has been done to them. There's a reason why there are people in our lives who, if we criticize or if we try to correct, they cannot hear our correction.

Doesn't matter what it is. You can say that you just put your shoe on the wrong foot and they will come unglued, come completely unglued. And we like, what in the world is that? Well, they've been damaged. Somewhere along the way, they learn that showing any sign of weakness, exposing their soft underbelly is going to get them hurt.

So they can't do that at all. They're not allowed to show weakness. Those are the things we have to realize. So coming up in a coming message, I'm going to do a message about wise people and foolish people and evil people. There's three choices.

There's three choices. We just think it's wise and foolish because that's what Proverbs presents. But there's actually this hidden third category, and it's the one we don't like to acknowledge because we don't like to say people are evil. And we'll talk about that. We'll unpack.

What does that even mean? But there are wise people, there are foolish people, there are evil people. And we have to have some discernment recognizing of those people who hurt us or wound us or whatever are these people. If this is not wisdom, is it just foolishness or is there something else behind it? That's hard.

I know. Years ago, I read a book by Dee Breastin entitled the Friendship of Women. And she talked about we are all roses, and we can. A rose has a thorn on it. And that we are going to be poked by our friends because we are sinners.

But discerning whether someone is just a rose and that's happening, or if you're dealing with an alligator. And so I think I'm kind of hearing you say that. And so, yeah, that's a good way of putting it. We need to have discernment. So.

And we can't assume then or go too far down the road to say that everything we're going to say to somebody is going to be full of perfume and roses and, and be nice. We are still called to hold people accountable and say hard things. Yes. And it's that difference of. I'm.

I'm telling you something hard because I want you to be better. I want you to. I want to bring you closer to Jesus and to be more Christ, like, so I need to say the hard thing. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's bad. I remember you telling me something that at some point years ago and bringing me face to face with a quality in myself.

And. And I've thought about it so many times now, and immediately when I go to that characteristic, I'm like, oh, yep, he's right, I'm going there. But that word of wisdom in my life is, even though it was hard to hear about myself, served me well. So there's such a huge span of good and bad and positive and negative and hard and good. And words are just important.

That's good. And it's taking the time to think carefully about what we say because it has so much of a huge impact on somebody else. We say this. Words are important. Words are important, very important.

So we want to say it's either sweet or source. And really they're words of life and words of death. And so words of life might prick us for a second, but we need to hear them. We're not going to get to talk about this in the message, but I think you're bringing up a really good point. And some of it has to do with.

There are times when people speak words of life into us and their hearts before the Lord are pure. In fact, sometimes it's been a mission that God has given them. So go speak to this person. You love this person. Go speak to this person.

And many times I know people who have loved me well have tried to speak words of wisdom, and because of where I am, I have not received it in that way. And I've pushed back. And so I think, well, this person's being negative. No, they're not. They're serving my life.

I'm just not mature enough right now to be able to receive it. So some of the words, what is said to us is not just what the person says or how they say. It's also how we receive. It's communication. It's A two way street.

Often over the years since I've spent my living talking in front of people, I have said things only to have them misconstrued. When I said, how did you get that out of that? How did that come out of what I said? I don't even understand. There are times I've come home and I said, I got an email today about this and this.

Do you remember me saying anything like that? No. And I've had to go back and listen to the message and oh, I think what they heard was. Well, that was their brokenness, interpreting this thing in a way it wasn't intended. And so part of our job is not just the words we speak, but also receiving the words from other people and what they say.

What is the grain of truth? Another pastor told me one time, sometimes our most vocal critics are our most accurate ones. We just don't like to acknowledge it. So we have to dig through and find what is the truth in the midst of this. Because there's probably some nugget, maybe there could be.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Powerful words. Well, it's the primary way we communicate with each other. So it's the thing that most of us don't have the ability to hurt a perfect stranger like in the grocery line.

If you assault somebody, you're going to be arrested. But all of us can say a cutting remark to someone or a server at a restaurant and treat them terribly by what we say. We all have the ability to do that. It's just the primary way we communicate. Before we go on and talk about words that we speak, because we've been talking about a lot about words that are spoken to us.

I know sometimes people speak words to us. I think of those people who are on American Idol and their mom told them they are a great singer and you're like, oh, honey, don't quit your day job. So what do we do with words like that where we like what we're hearing but they're not necessarily true words. Yeah. And there are always going to be people who want to pump us up in that way and tell us we're wonderful or tell us we're the best this or the most wonderful that, or we should pursue this as a hobby or as a job or something like that.

Well. And I think it speaks to the fact that we want to be nice. You know, we don't want to say the hard things. And so we default to something that is nice and kind because how could that go wrong? How could that be bad if I'm just Going to say something nice about somebody, but in the end it's more damaging than it is helpful, you know?

Yeah, we want our words to be truthful. We want our words to be truthful. We need to think through before we pump somebody up like that and in a place that it shouldn't be. Discernment. Yeah, this is another, put another notch on the.

This is just another area of our life where we have to follow the Holy Spirit and have discernment. Because there are times when people say something to me, even well meaning, and there's this little flag in my spirit that goes, that's not true. That's not true. They're blowing smoke either for a reason, maybe because of something in them or because they don't know what else to say or whatever it is. Sometimes it's to manipulate or something else.

So we need to have discernment. We need to go, I don't think that's true. Okay, so we all have children and grandchildren and spouses and family and our words sometimes do not carry what we want them to carry. What influences our words? I think we are learning the discipline of being quiet and not saying things.

You know, with adult kids, with, with grandkids. You know, we've talked about this. It, it's a new muscle. You know, you, you tend to, as a parent feel the right to, to step in and say something or, you know, because that's what we do as parents and we, we raise children well and they've been under our roof and they'. Authority.

And so we speak into all of those things when they're under our roof and then they leave and they go start their own families or have their own homes and that's where this comes in. Yeah. And you have to learn. You have to learn. This is not my place anymore to speak into some of those things that I normally, as a mom of a six year old would speak into.

And so that's another level of discipline, I think, with our words that we need to undertake. That's not my job anymore. Yeah, I definitely feel like with adult children I am biting my tongue, there's sometimes blood in my mouth just because there are things that I want to say. Yeah. And that's a hard, it's a hard place to be.

But again, I don't know that it should be something we need to wait until then to learn because I think that should always be true. You know, Is this a time to speak or is this a time to be quiet? We don't always have to speak into everything. That's, again, not our job. We are created to be influenced.

Every part of our being is influenced. We can't walk outside without the sun influencing our temperature. Our skin changes colors. All kinds of things happen to us, to our outside body. I don't know why we think we can expect to be in a place spiritually around things and not have it influence us.

So the media that we take in, the things that we. The songs we listen to with the lyrics. Yeah. Songs we listen to, conversations we have, the friends we hang out with, all of these things influence us to some degree. It is not a coincidence that because I really, in college, developed this terrible habit of swearing.

I didn't swear in my house growing up, and then I got my first two years of college, I kind of discovered swearing. Colorful metaphor. Yes, very, very colorful to the level of Olympic sport. And then I tried to. To get out of that, to steer it out of me.

But it's interesting when we watch a movie or something that has a lot of it in there, I don't even think about it, but that it's more tempting for me to begin to use those words again after I've just spent two hours having those words thrown at me again and again and again and again. We're influenced because that's how God created us. So if we aren't careful, that's good, Steve. And we don't put the right things around us, we're going to just mirror whatever it is we're getting. Just like our body sweats, our body is going to put out whatever it is that we are taking in 100%.

If we are taking in garbage, if we are taking in sexual immorality on a regular basis, we are going to start looking at people around us not as fellow sons and daughters of the most high king, but as objects of sexuality. And those are the things that we have to guard against, all of these things. And that certainly applies to our words. It's not only the things that we take in. Then, too, there's a choice of what we rehearse mentally.

We bring back full circle to our stories of the things that people have spoken into us over the years. We can choose whether we replay those conversations over and over and over again and rehearse what we think we know or what we take away for that conversation, or what pain that caused. Or we can rehearse things that are more positive. We can rehearse the truths that we know of scripture. We can rehearse who we know God to be through worship.

And those kinds of things. And one of my favorite little passages in Ecclesiastes. But this I call to mind. And therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.

And it's this call to rehearse. It's to bring it to mind. This is what I know to be true. This is what I'm going to set my mind on. Because those are the things that we can come back to over and over and over again.

And rehearsing just like it does in a. A sport or an instrument makes us better and better at it. Yeah, that's good. So I. I just love that idea that we get to choose. We get to choose what we rehearse as we think about the things that are said in those words that land.

Write it on the doorframes of your houses. Write it on your foreheads. Keep it with you at all times. Teach it to your children and your children's children. Keep these things before you rehearse that.

Rehearse my greatness. Rehearse my stories. Rehearse what I have done and what I continue to do. What we are thankful for, what we are experiencing through him. Those are the things that need to be rehearsed in of front our minds.

Not. Not the negatives. Yeah. And then those things come out in our words. Y.

That's good. This has been fun, guys. Thank you. And thank you for joining us. Have a great week.

Bye. Bye.