Four Small Creatures, Four Big Lessons • Beyond The Sermon

Well, hello and welcome to beyond the Sermon, a Bethany podcast where we have the privilege of digging deeper into our Sunday messages. I am Tammy Delau, and today I am joined with Pastor Steve Musto. And we didn't have a magic act. We have another David here and it's a different David. Yes.

Are we only going to have David's on the show? That could be so fun. That could be really fun. This is going to get really hard. But we are excited because the three of us get to be in a grow group.

So we have David Kim joining us today. And you are one of our elders and we know you and love you because we get to spend our Friday nights with you, but not everybody does. So why don't you share a tiny bit about who you are and what brought you to Bethany and all the things. Sure, absolutely. Thank you.

Well, it's an honor and privilege to be here, to be honest with you. I've been with Bethany for about four and a half years and actually David and I had a quick conversation about this before coming to Wisconsin. I really researched a little bit about what churches to go to, and it just landed on coming to Bethany. So I did. We did check other churches.

But ever since I came to Wisconsin, I've been here for four and a half years and absolutely have loved every part of it. I love being able to walk in and being greeted by such lovely faces and a warm heart, wonderful messages in worship. But also the grow groups that we have, just going deeper with each other and having life. So very much love Bethany, love the family that we have here. As far as my family is concerned, well, I have a beautiful bride that I've been married to for.

For 30 years. I can't believe it's 30 years. Wow. I have adult. Two adult children, one of which that lives with me.

And some of you may know her faith who. Who does serve in the back as well, too, during worship Sundays. And then my mom also lives with me as well, too. And again, great to serve on Bethany. That's awesome.

Well, we are glad you're here. Thank you. Well, let's jump in, guys. We have a lot to talk about. Yeah.

Okay. We are a series called Under Construction. And I am watching you guys from work disappear from your offices and go stand outside with your hands in your pockets and watch the dirt pile up. It's cracking me up. We're not supposed to say that in front of an elder.

That's like my boss. That is true. That is true. He likes to play outside. So I've Been learning.

You should have seen. So fun. As soon as the dirt started getting moved yesterday, one by one, we were. People were coming out of their offices. We were all lined up out there, like, have you been outside?

Oh, yeah. Have you been outside? Yeah. So it's. You can't make it into or out of the building without pausing for just a couple minutes and watching, you know that.

I don't know. Boys of all ages, I guess, we love to watch it. Well. And it's going to require some adjustments on our parts. I know as we come in, we all have our parking places that we.

I know where your vehicle goes. I know where my van goes. And it's like, I don't think I want to watch through that. And so I parked in a totally different place and came through a door and all the things. So our people are going to need to be mindful and follow the cones.

If you have little ones, please hold their hands because those. I am a mama of seven and a grandma of 13, and those look like hills. They say, come climb me and let's play Kingdom, those big piles of dirt. And we do not need our own big piles of rock, big piles of cement as they rip up the sidewalk. Big holes.

I wanted to go play on my way to the car yesterday, so, yeah, that would be good. Please, please, just watch. Keep control of the little ones. And I'm in double trouble. So you guys need to pray for me because not, you know, I'm the guy who wants to play, but I'm also short enough that, you know, I pass as a kid.

Someone's gonna grab your hand. Maybe that's what I need. Mom, hold my hand as I walk in. Oh, no. It's super exciting.

And I know you sent out an email yesterday just letting everyone know what was going on. And I loved the challenge to when you come, when you stop, because we all are so excited to stop and pray for what God is doing for the workers, for the people that are going to come in for us as a body. I took you serious today. When I pulled in, I was like, okay, that's a good idea. So we want this next stage bathed in prayer.

I know you two do. Yeah. We don't want. I think part of my heart is I don't want the end of the project to begin glorifying and praising God and impacting people. We want it to have started back when we were doing planning and meeting with architects, that they would see a difference in us and all of that.

We want to glorify God including seeing the workers outside and being kind to them. And we're brainstorming a little bit of how do we do that? How can we show ourselves? I know Monica will make cookies for the workers. She's our cookie maker here.

I think now you've just said that to hundreds and hundreds of people. Little bit of pressure or I'm sorry, Annika. Well, let's dive in because we are in this series and looking at how to lead a wise life, and you're going to talk about four kinds of wisdom. I'm going to read the passage, and it's not going to make sense. We're going to need you to help us a little bit.

So. Ready? Yeah. Well, it'll make sense. It's just weird.

It is weird. It is really weird. Okay. Proverbs 30, verses 24, 28. Four things on earth are small, yet they are extremely wise.

Ants are not a strong people, yet they store up their food in the summer. Hyraxes are not a mighty people, yet they make their homes in the cliffs. Locusts have no king, yet all of them march in ranks. A lizard can be caught in your hands, yet it lives in kings, palaces. I'm just going to say, take it away, friend, and explain a little bit before we even talk.

So I don't even know what a hyrax is, so if you could give me a picture, that would help on Sunday. So this Sunday we will have a picture of a hyrax so everybody can see it. When I was In Israel in 2016, we were at a dig site. So we were at a place that was actively being excavated in Israel. And there are so many artifacts in Israel that essentially they only keep the really important stuff.

And so they'll discard over on the side pieces of clay, pottery and stuff. And. And it dates to a thousand years before Jesus. And they just like, throw it in a trash pile. And the tourists all come by and it's like, wait, I want this.

I want to bring this home with me. So I actually have a little part of a lamp that we found that dates to the time of Jesus, and it was in one of those little piles of just discard stuff. But the other thing that you find in those discard piles that are rocky are these little animals. And we asked our tour guide, well, what is that? And he said, oh, that's a hyrax.

It's a coney, a rock badger. And we're looking at him and he's like, in the Bible, we went, oh, this is described sometimes in the Bible with these different names. And it's the same animal. So it is. It's like a groundhog, like our version of a groundhog.

But they don't live necessarily in the ground. They don't burrow. And it's where they live that's important. They live in the rocks, and that's part of why they're emphasized. So that's the hyrax ants we know.

Yes. I live in Holman and my yard is ants. Oh, yeah. Yes, I totally understand ants. Yeah.

I wish they didn't work so hard.

Lizards we don't have around here. I've taught this message from this passage in the Carolinas. David spent several years in North Carolina. So do you have lizards in your home ever? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Everywhere. Oh, yeah. It's fun when they get into your house and then you're chasing it all over the place. Yeah. Now.

And they. They aren't harmful at all to humans. They actually tend to stay away from you. And they're wonderful because they eat every kind of bug you can possibly imagine. So you sort of want them around your home, but having them.

Yeah. In your home. They get in your garage. Right. They get in your garage a lot.

And then locusts. And locusts we're familiar with, most of us probably seen them, but it's what locusts do that makes them so damaging, and it's the power of being in huge numbers. So locusts really were. Of the four animals listed. Ants are annoying to us.

Some of them sting and bite and whatever lizards get into our house. Okay. The hyrax completely stays away from human beings, wants nothing to do with us. Locusts seem to be like, okay, not a big deal, but if you go to Texas right now and you ask about a swarm of locusts, we'll see this weekend what a swarm of locusts looks like. They can decimate.

They're the most feared creature in the ancient world, bar none. Okay, well, they don't do as that much damage as locusts are. But I will tell you, judging from the way my wife reacted about two weeks ago, I think mayflies kind of give you a little glimpse of that here in Wisconsin. Yeah. Oh, that's good, you know, because we.

And that's a smaller kind of swarm, but yes, it's a swarm. Yeah, it's a swarm and it's annoying. And if you go down to the river. My goodness, the river. Bugs.

And so we kind of have that same concept, but that's what locusts would. Would be like. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think of even if you're walking on a summer night and you happen to just walk through where a bunch of gnats are, they're little, teeny, tiny. I can't imagine a locust.

So we were at an event the other night with the whole staff and with spouses. We were at the loggers game, and so your husband, Andy and Paul Coughlin, Lisa's husband and myself were sitting at a table just talking. It's towards the end of the night, and this little swarm of bugs came, and they were kind of swarming around, and the three of us went, are those mosquitoes? Those mosquitoes? I'm heading for the car.

We're done. Don't care what inning it is. Which of those animals resonates with you guys? I'm just curious. Yeah, ants.

The ones that are hard workers but always planning. You know, the badgers, the rock badgers, the hyraxes are the ones that find their strength in where they dwell, the things that they dwell in, in the rocks. The locusts, the power of community, the lizards, the fact that they just do not stop. They're ubiquitous. They're everywhere.

And so those are. Those are the four ideas. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah.

So which one kind of connects with you these days? You get to go first, Rand. Well, I think the one that naturally resonates with me probably will be the aunt. It's something that, you know, I would say the best way to describe this is that when my wife had our first child, my friends and family and Charlotte were like, david's not going to survive this. And the reason why is because I could not schedule the day and time when that child is coming to come.

And so that everyone knew this was horrible. And so, you know, this is something that I do on a regular basis. Planning is something. Is something that I would do on a normal basis. In fact, I was just commenting earlier that coming here, it's like I want to plan every little detail.

And so it's both pro and con in a way. Right. So for me, that's something that comes naturally. It's one that I resonate with. Good.

That's really good. How about you, Steve?

I would say I want to be more like the lizard.

I hope the lizard is the one that I most connect with because it's the unstoppable force. They just don't ever go away. They're found everywhere. And that's, you know, Ager says they're found even in kings, but you can catch them easily. Well, but just because you can catch, it doesn't mean you can get rid of them.

They never back down. And several years ago, before I became a lead pastor, I was out for a run one day and I really wanted to quit running. And I was probably three miles into a five mile run. I was like, three miles is really pretty good. I could stop right now and be, okay, I should just quit.

And I had this fleeting thought go through my head and I don't know if it was the Holy Spirit, I don't know if it was just me, but it was something like. So quitting when you're leading a church, you're just going to quit? Is that what you're going to do? Things are going to get hard and it never be. Yeah.

You're just going to say, oh, I don't want to do this anymore. I just don't want to show up today for this person. Or I don't want to. And I finished the run and so there's something in me that loves that. Stick to it.

Iveness and that I don't want to stop. You tell me I can't do it. I want to push forward and say, you know I can. The power of Christ. Absolutely I can.

So that. Yeah. How about you? I think that if you were to say Tammy, which one do you look like the most? I would say an aunt.

I mean, you both know me well enough that I like to get things done and I want to have a plan and I'm figuring everything out. You clean everything? Yeah. Yeah. My spiritual gift is clean.

You know, that's a good. Gets carried out of the office. There you go. I need to invite you over. There you go.

But the one that I want to be like and I'm realizing I need in this season of my life is to be like a Hyrex and to dwell in a place where I'm safe. Yeah. And so that's. That actually makes me teary. Like, I need to be a Hyrex.

Yeah. So maybe that's my new favorite animal. I don't know. So we'll see. I think, though, I've had the.

I've. I've had that too. You know, I've been through those periods of time too, where it's just. Yeah. I wish there was a.

It doesn't feel nothing. Kind of feels safe drawing fire from all sides. I wish I was in a place where I could rest and rest in the safety of knowing who I am. Yeah. I remember having small kids and just thinking, this is hard.

And older women would say, oh, this is hard. Physically, but when it's harder emotionally. And so aging mama and a career woman and adult children that you can't redirect, you can't time them. I'm like, this is a interesting season. So I want to dwell in a place where I am safe.

So this passage suggests that real strength comes from our wise habits rather than power. What's a wise habit that you guys have built that helps you in just like the seasons I was just talking about. I am an evening person. I'm a night person. I would night owl.

I am. I would way prefer to stay up late. Kathy would like to go to bed at 8 if it were socially acceptable. So she usually, I love you, Kathy. Yeah, she tries to hang in there till 9.

But because, I don't know, in our minds that's sort of the adult bedtime we started many years ago. We started saying, I think it's better if we go to bed together and pray together. And if that means I need to stay up and read or watch something on TV or whatever, we do that, that togetherness is really important. And it's a habit that I know there are a lot of couples who. One's morning person, one's a night owl and it's hard to connect.

But that was one of those. Yeah, we're going to start doing that. And then on occasion she'll stay up late with me too. There you go. I am your Kathy.

And Andy will say, you're so miserable. Why don't you just go to bed? Because it's just like I can't go to bed at 7:30. I have to stay awake. Oh, how about you?

What habits would you. Well, I would say, I mean, I started with naturally, I'm the planner. And then I would say the weakness that I think God caused me to really spend time with him is the rock Badger. So I'll say in a different way sometimes, maybe because I'm a guy, you know, I feel like I have to push through everything regardless. So sometimes I don't even recognize that there's a weakness or that I need to let it go.

And so the habit I've been trying to form is trying not to plan every little detail out. Sometimes it's about the thing that I think in the last two, three years is about just spending time with God, just being present in the moment. And that means you can't plan. You can't plan to be in the moment. You gotta be.

And so it's kind of odd for me to say it's like just letting Go of planning and just being in the moment, whether it be with my wife or anyone else. You know, for me, it's like all those details used to be something that I planned out as much as possible. For me now it's like, okay, God, what would you like me to do? And. And.

And sometimes it's just a conversation with him now. So for me, it's letting go and recognizing that there are times where, you know, there are things I can't do by myself. Sometimes it's, I gotta reach out to other people. You guys know me at grow group. Sometimes when we go to prayer requests, I don't speak about what I need or.

And I've learned over time I gotta do that. That's gotta be something I say I share with you now where I need help with and being vulnerable. Go. And letting God really work through me and work on me. And I think that's important.

And it always amazes me, especially for those of us or those of you who have a hard time sharing. Once someone like you opens up, we watch the floodgates happen. Everyone else, I mean, isn't that so true? So, yeah. So thank you for being vulnerable.

I know it's not always easy. I think for me, I've done been really working hard and trying to memorize Scripture and so just waking up saying, I will extol you at all times. Your praise will always be on my lips. My soul will boast in the Lord. Just speaking truth that way has been really good.

And realizing because I am a planner and very capable usually to feel uncapable and not know what is next, really to ask the Lord. And really, you've been very helpful in this, Jesus. What do you want me to do today as opposed to watch me conquer the list? And so I'm on mission for somebody who wants somebody to be on mission. And I want to be obedient to what he wants, not what Tammy wants.

And that's hard. I mean, that is hard. I read this week this is kind of a bonus little habit, but I was reading a little bit this week about people who have come into or have grown up with quite a lot of money and how their habits are different over the years, how their habits change, those who are able to hold onto that money, how their habits change. And it's been instructive for me in this way. All of them have come to the same conclusion.

And that is, it is better to spend our money on experiences rather than things. Oh, wow. Spend your money on experiences and not trinkets. Not Purses, not jewelry, not cars, not, you know, whatever. Spend it on experiences where you bring your fit.

Those are the things that people talk about. It's the. Remember when we went to Disney World? Remember when we went to the Grand Canyon? Remember when we went to Europe?

Nobody says, remember when you bought me that backpack? That was great. Backpack. You know, we don't talk about that. We talk about the experiences.

And that was kind of instructive for me and just another habit that I thought, wow, that's probably something we don't talk about enough that we need to talk about. I mean, I think of all of our grandkids, and we work hard to try to make Christmas nice for our kids. Their favorite time of the year is going to a cabin with us and playing games and having s'. Mores. And the experiences don't have to even be.

You're going to another country. Yeah. And so you're so right. I mean, they're not going to remember Nana and Papa's two gifts under the Christmas tree every year. They're going to remember.

Yeah. The time that they have. That's good. All right. I am the Wisconsin girl who's seen maybe a handful of lizards in her life, so unlike the two of you, and so you understand the persistence of a lizard.

Where is a place in your life where you are tempted to, want to, want to quit, want to give up, and you need to be persistent, like a lizard. That could be a relationship, a job, or a goal? And I'm not going first. So we're gonna make you. We're gonna make you go first.

If I could quit one thing and still have all the benefits of that thing. Exercise. Oh, wow. I love to ride my bike, and I like all the benefits of that. There are some exercises I love doing, and I would do them just for the enjoyment of it.

But then there are other exercises like strength training and that kind of thing that I know I'm supposed to do as I'm getting older. And I don't always enjoy those, but I do them anyway. So if I could get rid of that entirely and still have all the benefits of those things, the thing that keeps me going back to that is I have a high sense of responsibility that the Lord has put me in a place and has given me a mission and a ministry, and he has asked me to fulfill that ministry. And I have a responsibility to the people that I shepherd to be on my best and again, just as Southern thing. I had many pastoral friends, particularly in the south, who would rail against many of the sins of the flesh and were carrying a hundred plus extra pounds.

And I would say to them, it's the biscuits and gravies. It is. Oh, no doubt. I know exactly what happened to the performance. Absolutely.

And sweet tea and all this, you know, while you're eating, you're like, this is worth it. And it's not until later that you feel like it's not. I felt like they were not always at their best and always ready to serve because it makes you more tired and makes you, you know, it's harder to get up and do all those things in the morning and do you have as much energy? And so I do this a sense of obligation. I got to take care of this body that God has given me.

But when I want to quit or when I don't want to work out, it's the okay, but this is not for you. This is for Christ and for his people. And so go do crunches and lift a few weights and feel better. Okay? Yeah.

I think for me, I am in the season of life where my mom is declining. And it is hard. It's hard to have those conversations that need to be had. I don't want to do it. I mean, I don't want to do it.

And so that is something that I need to persist and know that this is part of God's plan and it's good for both of us. But this is a hard season. I definitely don't want to do it. Just want her to be well. And part of it is because I love her so much.

And part of it is showing me that unless God takes me home tomorrow, I'm going to age and these things are going to happen. So there's a. A double reason that I want to close my eyes and not do it. This is really. We've talked about this before, but this is really the hardest season because you've got the adult kids who aren't fully on their footing yet.

You've got the grandkids who you're trying to influence. You got your parents who are looking to you for whatever they're looking to you for. And then, oh, yeah, by the way, leading a church and doing all those things that you're doing. And I've never felt more pulled in more directions than in this season, than in this season of my life. Then I'm not crazy.

So thanks for the encouragement. I'm in the same boat. I mean, we talked about that as well, too. I mean, I love my mom. She lives with me and she's fabulous.

And I've seen, as you mentioned, you know, from being super mom, and then suddenly, you know, we're the caretakers in some ways. And it's hard to see your mom, your parents who've taken care of you, suddenly in great need. And it's heartbreaking in a way, too, because they also, at least for my mom, I think most parents don't want to be a burden, and so it creates a hardship there, too. But I think the area that, for me here is that it's also about my children. I think both of them.

For my daughter. I love coming to Bethany because I think God called us and I seen so much in her and how much she's change and grown. And I think a lot to do with Bethany now, of course, it's God, but Bethany played a part in that. The community. The community, absolutely.

You see her shine with her friends. Yes. And I love that. But there's a part of me that says, okay, you need to move in your career and other things. And they're at an age now, you can't tell them what to do.

So how do you encourage them? And then many people may not know, but my son and I were estranged when we moved here four and a half years ago. He simply just disconnected. And so this is a place where I struggle, and this is where I want to almost want to give up. When we talk about persistence, it's like when I feel like I want to give up, it's like I don't know what the answer is.

Like, I just want to just throw up my hands and say, God, I don't. Don't know. I don't know what to do. How much do I reach out to him? How much am I really smothering him with all the communication and, you know, what do I do in these particular cases?

And so that's been a struggle in a way. And there are times where I feel like I'm not right to be doing any kind of work. Like, how can I serve in any way when I'm struggling with my own child, in our relationship? And so I love my son. I want to do what we can, but there are times where I just want to give up.

But I love what you said earlier, too. Persistence, yes, we have to have persistence. But for me, what I've been learning is that it's really about just really trusting God. There is no answer for me at this point, absolutely no answer. So for me, it's really persisting in the sense of trusting God, not just with him.

I'm Realizing it's just as more important for ourselves as well, too. So I also love our grow group, you know, just surrounding me. But I've also had other people come up and tell me about their relationship with their children. So I know God is in all of those things. And so that gives me strength for persistence at that point.

But it's not by my strength. If it was, I would have given up ages ago. At this point. There's a lot of pain in our world right now. In the United States right now, we live in a very interesting time.

There are more children cutting off communication with their parents than ever before. And sociologists are studying it right now, trying to figure out, do we know why? Reasons have been postulated. And some of it has to do with the hive mentality in social media. It's like, well, they did that, so I'm going to do this.

We see these clusters of trends and whatever, and I'm not talking about like, my mom wishes I would call her more. She does, by the way. I know she does. Believe me. I know.

Not talking about that. I mean, these are folks who you reach out years. You don't hear a word, you don't know if they're alive. You don't know anything that's going on in their lives. I mean, it is really hard.

And we have a lot of folks in our church who are walking that right now and don't even really have a reason as to why communication has been cut off. Can't say it was the. Look, I will apologize for whatever you want me to apologize for. I just don't know what it is if you just tell me. They don't even have that.

So what you're walking is what a lot of people are walking and makes you in many ways more effective at what you do as one of the leaders here because people can resonate with where you are. There are a lot of people listening right now who can resonate with that can resonate. And also it's so easy for us to make children idols as Americans and for you to say, and Leah to say, Jesus is enough in the midst of the storm that you're in blesses us. I wish that you didn't have to do it, but we are very blessed to call you friends and to see you trusting God in the midst of this hard storm. So I have a question for David.

This is a Korean culture question because you've said, you said that your mom lives with you. Yes, but Korean culture, does your mom live with you? Or technically do you Live with your mom. Oh, wow. I mean, I understand the financial reality of you work.

It's your house when you're on the deed and everything else. But what is the. How is that seen in Korean culture? Culture? Yeah.

So it's. It's really odd there because it's not. Well, to answer your question, it's. It. I live with my mom in a way.

Okay. If you really want to go into real Korean culture, I mean, the money also flows that way too, basically. So you, you know, tradition, a long time ago. I don't know how it is now because it's been a while since I've been back in Korea. But typically the money will go to who is the elder in the family, and then they distribute the funds in a way as well, too.

So, yeah, my mom would be the person that I'm living with. But, you know, we don't say that. We don't call it that. We just live that way. And so there's a goodness to that in a way, because we know our roles and we don't have to worry about crossing the lines and things like that.

So I appreciate that. My mom doesn't come and say, I run the roost here. Therefore you shall. We don't have that type of relationship, so. But traditionally, Koreans would have that type of relationship, is what you're saying.

Yeah. So it's clearer what our roles are. And, you know, of course, as humans, it gets in the way of, you know, pride and all those things. I want it my way and things like that. But when we have clear boundaries and roles, it's easier.

We know the expectation and live accordingly. And we're always. We're happy with that in a way. So. So yeah, we.

We love. We live together. It's. It's. Even though it's under my name, it's my mom's house.

Yeah, That's. That's the heart, I would say. Well, so it's my. We've talked about this a couple times before, you and I, but it is so much closer to the world of the Bible because it's multi generational. Multi generational under one roof.

Yes. The oldest male is generally the one who's in charge. Very patristic kind of society. And it flows down. Everything flows down from there, and there's beauty in it.

It is amazing when it's done really well. There's also frustration in it for the reasons that we would think we could never, as a culture, as our culture. We couldn't go back there because we've been liberated to go explore our own world now. But it's even different than living in the same town as your whole family. It's truly living under one roof.

But this is also many of the commands in Scripture that we find in Old Testament and New Testament of teaching your children and your children's children. How do you do that? How do you impress that on them every day? Well, you're with them breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You're putting them to bed at night.

Everybody's participating. Everybody's speaking into this. And in addition to that, all your neighbors doing the same thing, too. So there's a shared responsibility of family units and community that we just have lost. We've made it way harder on ourselves to be followers of Jesus.

My life would be easier if my mom was living with me, trying to take care of her, you know what I mean? Like, wanting to help her and take care of her. It's hard when she's three hours away. Yeah, I get that. I think something that I really appreciate about you and Leah is because of the culture that you come from.

From it's more of that shame, honor culture. And so you see things in scripture that we don't naturally see. And so you illuminate that for us, that whole shame, honor thing. So, yeah, it's been fun having you here. Well, thank you.

Glad to be here. Thank you for joining us. And thank you for joining us.